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five bucks talks right there you go

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right huh I hear because I'm here today

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with my favorite ufologist of all time

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and don't smirk and I haven't put

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anything in your coffee not yet anyway

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haunted place there you go there you go

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and we're here to bring everybody up to

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date on what the magnificent peter

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robbins has been doing with himself

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since Laetare theorem and so Peter you

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know I you know most people probably

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equate you with the pepper orders

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episode they know that you co-authored

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the book with Larry Warren and you went

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there to England to good old Yukiya okay

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and and had experiences of your own but

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maybe a lot of them I don't think the

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majority of readers and people that are

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into the UFOs really know your

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background which actually started with

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you and your sister I believe had a kind

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of sighting when was that and what were

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the circumstances we had a sighting Oh

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first of all who was your sister well

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professionally Helen wheels who some of

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your readers and viewers may know as one

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of the Queen's of the early punk rock

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movement and an award-winning songwriter

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for the Blue Oyster Cult and legendary

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performer herself and travelled with a

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pet snake yeah in fact that's another

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story there about the snake that we can

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get into in a while a major okay now

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where where would the where did the

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experience take place so how old were

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you at the time well we were born in

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Queens but grew up in good part on Long

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Island in Nassau County and I was 14

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Helen was 12 was the early 60s and we

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saw a phenomenal daylight sighting over

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our house which turned out in retrospect

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to be an aspect

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the beginning of an abduction experience

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of my sisters and I was sort of a a

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viewer a part of it but it had

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tremendous impact on me it was very well

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what did you see Peter we saw five

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silvery white disc shaped objects coming

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in over a high rate of speed and

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stopping essentially over the neighbor's

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house

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they were silvery kind of metallic they

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looked like they were sort of brushed

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aluminum to both of us they were not you

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know like stainless steel and they came

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in and held in a very precise military V

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type formation and there how many of

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them again the five of them and they

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were all identical in appearance

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absolutely identical and I should stress

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here that it was late morning early

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afternoon and absolutely clear daylight

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sighting not a cloud in the sky blue sky

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and all of a sudden there there were and

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there was no question that they were

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round that they had no appendages on

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them whatsoever they hung in the air as

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though they were a still photograph and

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we could make out and they were there

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for a considerable amount of time

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possibly several minutes which as you

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know is forever in a situation like that

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we could make out little regular

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detailing around the edge of each

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without any kind of amplification or you

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know binoculars we didn't have any that

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we could only read the same way that

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you'd see windows on an airliner and we

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looked and we looked and we looked and I

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went through a reaction that I'll never

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forget

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because I put it that firmly out of my

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mind but it's a reaction I've

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encountered many times over the years

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and doing interviews for research now

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you would have been 10 years old I was

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about 12 yeah I know I was actually

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Helen was just 12 I was 14 well near as

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we can put together

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and what the reaction was was something

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I call the checklist phenomenon and

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you've encountered it at different times

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and you work I'm sure variations on it

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it's when somebody looks up and reports

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to you not what they're seeing but they

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run through a list of things that it

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ain't in my case what I was looking at

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was not an airplane a blimp a helicopter

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a balloon and original a reflection from

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the ground a bird a strange shaped cloud

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it was a truly unknown thing

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it was round it was metal it was

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obviously a machine and there it was it

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just hung there and you don't you don't

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think looking back it was no psychic

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apparition no I don't think so yeah it

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it was good got up to it you could have

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knocked on it I believe so and Helen's

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memories matched mine and we had not

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talked about it for years until we did

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as adults

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well now what happened right after the

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episode did you free then you go into a

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trance state or you say she was about

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like yeah I feel like I was knocked

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unconscious and I remember going under

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and coming up and being on the ground

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and I was running when I went down and

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Helen her memories continued she

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remembered literally just standing there

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after the fact and had a very very clear

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memory of simply going up into the sky

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with her hair which was fairly long at

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the time just sort of blowing in the

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wind and seeing the bottom of one of

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these things getting larger and larger

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now we didn't talk about this until

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about 1976 or so so it was years after

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the fact and I had no interest in the

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subject nor did she as kids the

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difference was within a couple of days I

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was real busy putting this out of my

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mind I was working on it like I had

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never worked on anything because hold

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out did you see the craft disappear

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Helen did

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as I recall she did the memory that she

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had that really upset me was after I

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recalled this again about 14 years later

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teaching at the School of Visual Arts at

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the time a gallery painter that had been

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my dream mm-hmm and I was going through

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some old drawings and this memory came

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back and I guess for me having had what

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I would have to call a pretty happy

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childhood without any major trauma that

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I can remember certainly luckier than a

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lot of kids I remember this memory

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coming up like a tidal wave and all of a

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sudden it was as though I was running

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movie film in my head of that afternoon

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and I was really upset about it because

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I I under I had read about this

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phenomena of the repressed memory but if

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it's never happened to you its total

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abstraction and all of a sudden you

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remember something that was a key moment

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in your life and while you're

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remembering it and sort of looking at it

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with the clarity of a kodacolor film

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strip you're very upset because you

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think you're going crazy how could you

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ever forgotten it but we know that it

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can happen

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what won out Peter okay how long do you

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think the whole episode took place and

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what is it that Helen remembered that

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you didn't she he does remember being on

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board what happened to her there what

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did the beings look like Clewiston a

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little on archetypical grays but this

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was before the greys actually right I

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mean Meho made such a stronghold though

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even drawings at the time and it was

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what went on to become the archetype in

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challenging my veracity of memories and

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things the late fill class had

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postulated and I think he mentions it in

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UFO

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dangerous game that what Helen and I

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probably had happened to us was a

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misunderstanding of something else and

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that this became part of our personal

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mythology and let us feel special and

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all of that for joy exactly and other

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somewhat insulting you know theorem that

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he was comfortable with but Helen never

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forgot it

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and years later when I was taking

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psychology in night school at NYU one of

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my professors who I thought was really

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very brilliant and who took the subject

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seriously to start with and had since he

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was a kid

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said he felt the fact that I was 14 and

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I couldn't agree with more it was really

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important to me to put this out of my

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mind because I swear I I knew while this

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was happening if I talked to any of my

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pals in junior high about it my ticket

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was gonna get cancelled I'd just be a

202
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joke hmm I'd certainly never find a girl

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who won't have sex with me and that's

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important it's still the same thing you

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know though it is it that uh but I was

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real clear yeah that I was absolutely

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caught up in all of the sweep of

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adolescence I just wanted some cool

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clothes to have a nice social life again

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to move forward with yeah possibility of

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socializing yes yeah yeah and I put it

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out of my mind I'm moving out of my mind

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and within a few weeks it was as though

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and on the other hand that had been

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Helen well that fit with us that

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afternoon after this whole series of

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things that happened she did want to

218
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talk about it and I made it very clear I

219
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did not what was important for several

220
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reasons but still that afternoon I I was

221
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in another place and after I'd picked

222
00:11:01,510 --> 00:11:00,020
myself up the next real series of

223
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conscious memories was being on my show

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that bag over there oh that's the coffee

225
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cool they need coffee

226
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yeah look at this hey I'm really here

227
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it's not look at look at this a cup and

228
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saucer here you know it's a high-budget

229
00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:25,040
you know well I get this from my my mr.

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00:11:28,090 --> 00:11:26,630
creep up persona you know where the

231
00:11:32,650 --> 00:11:28,100
budget is no object

232
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none at all that's right at least we

233
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don't have graffiti on look no no no

234
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Guinea here oh we should put it we

235
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should have put it on the back of the

236
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wall over there you know what you'll

237
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:45,740
have to photoshop it in when we did talk

238
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:47,120
about it years later it was because I

239
00:11:52,690 --> 00:11:51,050
brought it up and it was real clear that

240
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I only had one shot at getting her

241
00:12:01,150 --> 00:11:56,210
memory yes and I was frankly that upset

242
00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:01,160
in remembering it that well how many

243
00:12:06,130 --> 00:12:03,350
years later would that have been 13 14

244
00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:06,140
years later and all of a sudden already

245
00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:08,960
put you in your late 20s

246
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:12,950
yeah I was living in Chinatown in a loft

247
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LMOs in the Lower East Side on a 6th

248
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Street called her up and realized you

249
00:12:22,780 --> 00:12:19,490
only have one chance to do this right

250
00:12:24,130 --> 00:12:22,790
and knew that I could simply say I've

251
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just had this return memory from

252
00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:26,060
childhood I had 10 find out if you

253
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:27,890
remember it and describe it to her did

254
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she say yes and you guys started reading

255
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any of the literature or something never

256
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had simply not come up at all yeah and

257
00:12:41,650 --> 00:12:38,750
another thing that some skeptics had put

258
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forward was you know the psychology 101

259
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:44,120
stuff that when we were kids the big

260
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issues on UFOs of life and look in the

261
00:12:51,670 --> 00:12:49,060
Saturday Evening Post had come out and

262
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somehow that had imprinted on you and

263
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you must have seen something about John

264
00:13:00,790 --> 00:12:57,530
Fuller's work or about you know the New

265
00:13:03,220 --> 00:13:00,800
Hampshire abduction case in 61 well if

266
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:03,230
we did none of it stuck or interested in

267
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either of them yeah lots of different

268
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life interests so I called her up and

269
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rather than saying this is what I

270
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remember I said I'm afraid if I tell you

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what I remember you'll say yes or no and

272
00:13:19,690 --> 00:13:16,460
so let me see if I can set the scene and

273
00:13:21,370 --> 00:13:19,700
maybe I'll come back and frankly I was

274
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:21,380
just a few sentences in I had said

275
00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:23,210
happened to us together we were playing

276
00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:23,430
on

277
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:31,110
we're kids and she cut me off

278
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:32,970
mid-sentence laughing and said stop I

279
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:34,110
know what you're talking about

280
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:36,930
and then proceeded to tell me what I

281
00:13:42,019 --> 00:13:40,110
remembered the one detail which we

282
00:13:44,150 --> 00:13:42,029
worked out very quickly the next day

283
00:13:46,579 --> 00:13:44,160
with some drawings she wasn't sure

284
00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:46,589
whether it was five or six but we both

285
00:13:51,590 --> 00:13:49,980
remembered that it was an even the new

286
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:51,600
it even had to be odd any of these drugs

287
00:13:56,389 --> 00:13:53,730
exist anywhere yeah they do not I have

288
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,399
most of them I'd like to use one for a

289
00:14:02,660 --> 00:13:58,320
magazine I think we could ride that

290
00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:02,670
Daphne yeah I became obsessed overnight

291
00:14:06,199 --> 00:14:04,020
with the subject and they started to

292
00:14:07,850 --> 00:14:06,209
show up with me shocking and

293
00:14:13,850 --> 00:14:07,860
unprofessional regularity and my

294
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:13,860
previously serious artwork and after you

295
00:14:19,670 --> 00:14:15,570
know she had said this and I had that

296
00:14:22,579 --> 00:14:19,680
amazing mixture of elation and anxiety

297
00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:22,589
essentially oh my god they're real and

298
00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:24,540
it happened and oh my god

299
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:29,910
they're real and it happened and then

300
00:14:33,829 --> 00:14:31,470
she said you know in the course of this

301
00:14:35,390 --> 00:14:33,839
phone conversation it's so interesting

302
00:14:37,010 --> 00:14:35,400
to me that you're calling me today with

303
00:14:39,260 --> 00:14:37,020
this because if you we hadn't discussed

304
00:14:41,180 --> 00:14:39,270
this today I think I would have probably

305
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:41,190
brought it up in the next few weeks I

306
00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:44,160
said after all these years why would you

307
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:45,750
brought it up you know in the next few

308
00:14:50,650 --> 00:14:47,279
weeks she said I've been having a

309
00:14:55,970 --> 00:14:50,660
repeating dream and it's super real and

310
00:14:58,190 --> 00:14:55,980
it relates to this and she said well I'm

311
00:15:00,800 --> 00:14:58,200
in a metal room yeah bring up Ebert

312
00:15:04,490 --> 00:15:00,810
vocal vocals look guy I'm not using the

313
00:15:05,750 --> 00:15:04,500
okay I then visited the mic because I

314
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,760
could never tell that it's working and

315
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:06,959
that this one should be working because

316
00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:09,450
it's built in beautiful we want Sean

317
00:15:19,780 --> 00:15:15,570
Castile to hear every single her feeling

318
00:15:25,460 --> 00:15:22,579
well again she but having this repeating

319
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:25,470
dream and the dream was that she was

320
00:15:30,410 --> 00:15:27,690
that girl again that she was at that

321
00:15:33,949 --> 00:15:30,420
time about 12 years old that she was in

322
00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:33,959
a metal room being examined by little

323
00:15:41,499 --> 00:15:36,290
doctors with big heads

324
00:15:43,059 --> 00:15:41,509
she was on a metal table did not have

325
00:15:46,030 --> 00:15:43,069
any clothes on and was being looked at

326
00:15:47,829 --> 00:15:46,040
by these little doctors and when we did

327
00:15:48,879 --> 00:15:47,839
the drawings they did not look like

328
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:48,889
doctors at all

329
00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:50,720
they looked like really archetypical

330
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:54,160
Grey's with huge sweep eyes and against

331
00:16:01,090 --> 00:15:57,920
1976 there had not been any abductees on

332
00:16:05,290 --> 00:16:01,100
talk shows ever no no there were a

333
00:16:07,210 --> 00:16:05,300
handful of books in print but we were

334
00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:07,220
still if you could have read my column

335
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:12,529
and Ray Palmer's magazine if you know

336
00:16:16,269 --> 00:16:14,810
well I think we've broken the code right

337
00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:16,279
now that's it

338
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:18,110
although we didn't we didn't talk about

339
00:16:25,660 --> 00:16:22,850
greys that they were the the Nordics the

340
00:16:28,389 --> 00:16:25,670
big blonde yeah no and insisted and the

341
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:28,399
drawings which I have of course match

342
00:16:33,610 --> 00:16:30,170
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds that

343
00:16:36,009 --> 00:16:33,620
we've now seen and she went on to become

344
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:36,019
a very early member of Budd Hopkins for

345
00:16:41,019 --> 00:16:37,370
support group and we should remember

346
00:16:42,699 --> 00:16:41,029
here that our return memory was still I

347
00:16:45,670 --> 00:16:42,709
think four or five years before even

348
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:45,680
missing time came out as a book so it

349
00:16:49,869 --> 00:16:47,720
was not being looked at but you can bet

350
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:49,879
my life changed overnight and that's how

351
00:16:56,290 --> 00:16:53,360
I got into the work yeah pretty much has

352
00:16:57,429 --> 00:16:56,300
an obsession not love and to try to get

353
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:57,439
an idea of what had happened to my

354
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:01,040
sister and now in retrospect what has

355
00:17:08,049 --> 00:17:03,110
happened to a lot of people tell you how

356
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:08,059
long she spent on board the craft no but

357
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:10,730
we both did regressive hypnosis on it

358
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:13,250
she did several with Budd welcome Pete

359
00:17:19,149 --> 00:17:17,360
Missoula I did one with Pete who may not

360
00:17:21,069 --> 00:17:19,159
be a new york city cop for people who

361
00:17:24,189 --> 00:17:21,079
doesn't like tough no-nonsense New York

362
00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:24,199
City police detective who was a great

363
00:17:31,180 --> 00:17:29,240
UFO investigator sr i SBI FBI and in the

364
00:17:34,210 --> 00:17:31,190
late nineteen seventies well no in the

365
00:17:36,340 --> 00:17:34,220
mid seventies I guess founded an

366
00:17:40,029 --> 00:17:36,350
organization called Scientific Bureau

367
00:17:42,190 --> 00:17:40,039
best again had a 24-hour hotline but

368
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:42,200
what made it really unique was that it

369
00:17:47,770 --> 00:17:45,110
was primarily opposed to police officers

370
00:17:48,730 --> 00:17:47,780
that the police officer Pete Missoula

371
00:17:49,380 --> 00:17:48,740
and then there was another fellow who

372
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:49,390
was this

373
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,910
fillos was a guy who worked with him

374
00:17:57,660 --> 00:17:54,160
yeah several others yeah yeah but what

375
00:18:00,000 --> 00:17:57,670
they did and this again is post the air

376
00:18:04,170 --> 00:18:00,010
force going out of the UFO right warning

377
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:04,180
business was often especially in small

378
00:18:07,770 --> 00:18:05,530
towns around the country if somebody

379
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:07,780
would have a sighting that they took

380
00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:10,390
seriously enough to report they wouldn't

381
00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:12,100
call the local newspaper they would call

382
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:14,350
the local police department yeah and you

383
00:18:19,710 --> 00:18:16,210
may remember Tim there's a really famous

384
00:18:23,310 --> 00:18:19,720
letter to then congressional

385
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:23,320
representative Jerry Ford boy and Ford

386
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,690
was very outspoken and one of the things

387
00:18:28,860 --> 00:18:27,280
that I was remembered was some of the

388
00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:28,870
witnesses who came forward to him in the

389
00:18:34,230 --> 00:18:31,870
early 70s these were not only credible

390
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:34,240
people some of them cops but there are

391
00:18:37,770 --> 00:18:36,370
people he grew up with of course we

392
00:18:40,340 --> 00:18:37,780
didn't hear anything about it after he

393
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:40,350
became president not gonna push on that

394
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:48,730
but this SBI they were built around

395
00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:51,570
Pete's passion on the subject he died in

396
00:18:58,650 --> 00:18:55,060
June of 87 I think complications

397
00:19:01,920 --> 00:18:58,660
following a car accident that ultimately

398
00:19:03,330 --> 00:19:01,930
hid a tumor if they weren't looking for

399
00:19:05,550 --> 00:19:03,340
him but when they found that it was too

400
00:19:09,090 --> 00:19:05,560
late but he was a really important

401
00:19:12,050 --> 00:19:09,100
mentor of mine and I did regression with

402
00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:12,060
him with bud and with another hypnotist

403
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:14,950
partly because as I got deeper in the

404
00:19:18,330 --> 00:19:15,850
work mm-hmm

405
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:18,340
I was curious had it happened to me too

406
00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:20,530
I mean it could we now know there's a

407
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:25,000
phenomena in siblings and adult partners

408
00:19:29,070 --> 00:19:26,890
whether married or not if one of them

409
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:29,080
has a history of abduction the other one

410
00:19:39,330 --> 00:19:32,170
is often turned off so to say and I seem

411
00:19:42,510 --> 00:19:39,340
to be that other one now I know later on

412
00:19:45,030 --> 00:19:42,520
when you went to to England you had some

413
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:45,040
of other experiences there did Helen

414
00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:47,290
ever have any follow-up experiences she

415
00:19:52,010 --> 00:19:49,390
had a handful of them yeah and she

416
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:52,020
looked into a number of them with bud

417
00:19:58,020 --> 00:19:56,290
which of course was recorded and in

418
00:20:01,270 --> 00:19:58,030
great detail you know everything Peter

419
00:20:06,610 --> 00:20:04,720
maybe I think there were regulars at

420
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:06,620
CBGB that has to come in sometime at

421
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:14,740
but the the reality for me was if this

422
00:20:21,420 --> 00:20:17,050
could happen to somebody in your family

423
00:20:24,910 --> 00:20:21,430
it could happen to anybody of course and

424
00:20:26,670 --> 00:20:24,920
again my background is in the arts I've

425
00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:26,680
worked in theater management for years

426
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:29,030
my training is as a painter taught

427
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:30,650
painting at the School of Visual Arts

428
00:20:37,180 --> 00:20:34,730
love photography the UFO work I've done

429
00:20:39,460 --> 00:20:37,190
for decades now I'm proud of the good

430
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:39,470
work that I've done but I can't say I

431
00:20:44,470 --> 00:20:41,840
love it I do it because I think it's

432
00:20:47,670 --> 00:20:44,480
important work and because it's an

433
00:20:50,110 --> 00:20:47,680
obsession that started with my sister so

434
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:50,120
that is some of the background that I

435
00:20:55,210 --> 00:20:52,970
have in it I should go back one other

436
00:20:57,370 --> 00:20:55,220
thing yeah it's kind of funny and now it

437
00:20:59,650 --> 00:20:57,380
is but after Helen I had talked about

438
00:21:02,050 --> 00:20:59,660
this thing and we got to that point

439
00:21:04,270 --> 00:21:02,060
where oh my god you remember them too

440
00:21:10,180 --> 00:21:04,280
and she said but there's more and you're

441
00:21:12,850 --> 00:21:10,190
not gonna like it and at that point she

442
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:12,860
said as I sort of peeled off to run to

443
00:21:17,050 --> 00:21:15,050
the house to tell her mom and I remember

444
00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:17,060
that moment I had had it I mean I was

445
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:22,040
that anxious at that point she saw a

446
00:21:26,410 --> 00:21:23,690
light shoot out of one of these in

447
00:21:28,150 --> 00:21:26,420
bluish colored light and envelop me you

448
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:28,160
know very close to where she was the

449
00:21:32,100 --> 00:21:29,840
light went off the halo that I see

450
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:32,110
behind you

451
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:34,850
that's the battery path that I have on

452
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:38,450
the back of my head and I was decidedly

453
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:40,730
unhappy for my sister to tell me that I

454
00:21:44,770 --> 00:21:42,530
had been hit by a blue beam of light

455
00:21:48,670 --> 00:21:44,780
from one of these things and my first

456
00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:48,680
thought was my sister's gone crazy my

457
00:21:53,290 --> 00:21:51,110
second thought was oh it's alright for

458
00:21:57,370 --> 00:21:53,300
her to go crazy because she says she saw

459
00:21:59,850 --> 00:21:57,380
this happen and three seconds ago she

460
00:22:02,350 --> 00:21:59,860
was very sane because she was describing

461
00:22:03,550 --> 00:22:02,360
flying saucers hanging over the Parkers

462
00:22:05,740 --> 00:22:03,560
house across the street from your

463
00:22:07,769 --> 00:22:05,750
childhood home and you catch yourself

464
00:22:11,940 --> 00:22:07,779
and you know you deal with the anxiety

465
00:22:14,249 --> 00:22:11,950
but I'm quite convinced that happened to

466
00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:14,259
me every lived it in two of the

467
00:22:18,810 --> 00:22:17,070
regressions to be sure in detail and

468
00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:18,820
stranger things have happened to a lot

469
00:22:24,389 --> 00:22:21,340
of other people we know now how did you

470
00:22:25,739 --> 00:22:24,399
well what was after you had met but

471
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:25,749
Hopkin what year was that that you

472
00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:29,700
hooked up with bud just a few let's see

473
00:22:36,779 --> 00:22:33,070
about a year later well what year is

474
00:22:39,570 --> 00:22:36,789
that I think about 76 and it's something

475
00:22:41,459 --> 00:22:39,580
you will remember because but of course

476
00:22:43,139 --> 00:22:41,469
who is sort of the Dean of the School of

477
00:22:45,869 --> 00:22:43,149
studies involving the abduction

478
00:22:47,549 --> 00:22:45,879
phenomena and has been at it for you

479
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:47,559
know close to thirty years this be

480
00:22:52,919 --> 00:22:49,690
Stonehenge

481
00:22:55,829 --> 00:22:52,929
yes exactly bud had written an article

482
00:22:57,930 --> 00:22:55,839
for The Village Voice yes and it was an

483
00:23:00,719 --> 00:22:57,940
article on what was regarded as the best

484
00:23:03,089 --> 00:23:00,729
case of the year well I was kind of

485
00:23:07,849 --> 00:23:03,099
involved with that in a sense later on

486
00:23:11,310 --> 00:23:07,859
Jersey boy no we had we bought over a a

487
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:11,320
fella by the name of Warren Freiburg or

488
00:23:16,109 --> 00:23:13,570
Freiburg that I was his publicist for we

489
00:23:19,109 --> 00:23:16,119
had a little escapade in the park over

490
00:23:20,849 --> 00:23:19,119
there it got a group of well it was

491
00:23:25,049 --> 00:23:20,859
announced in the they were gonna hold a

492
00:23:26,579 --> 00:23:25,059
seance to try to bring in the the beings

493
00:23:28,469 --> 00:23:26,589
that had the land up there and dug up

494
00:23:30,749 --> 00:23:28,479
the the soil sample that Allah Barsky

495
00:23:32,369 --> 00:23:30,759
I'm doing you remember that well yeah

496
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:32,379
about five or six hundred people has

497
00:23:35,339 --> 00:23:33,849
showed up there was a naked guy with the

498
00:23:37,349 --> 00:23:35,349
tinfoil and I said running through that

499
00:23:39,899 --> 00:23:37,359
and it made the front page of The

500
00:23:42,209 --> 00:23:39,909
star-ledger and we ended up with least

501
00:23:43,859 --> 00:23:42,219
Spiegel who worked for NBC across the

502
00:23:46,019 --> 00:23:43,869
street on the on the roof of the

503
00:23:49,529 --> 00:23:46,029
Stonehenge while this the guy's wife

504
00:23:51,989 --> 00:23:49,539
went into trance and channel Ingemar or

505
00:23:54,719 --> 00:23:51,999
somebody or whatever whatever it was but

506
00:23:58,139 --> 00:23:54,729
it was a it was a quite a party I would

507
00:24:01,019 --> 00:23:58,149
say and for those who readers or viewers

508
00:24:04,999 --> 00:24:01,029
yeah are not aware of what we're talking

509
00:24:08,249 --> 00:24:05,009
about and I guess it was 75 I'm not sure

510
00:24:10,169 --> 00:24:08,259
there was this incident and the key

511
00:24:12,599 --> 00:24:10,179
witness was a man named George Ovar I

512
00:24:13,950 --> 00:24:12,609
retired liquor store he had a liquor

513
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:13,960
store here in the city but he didn't

514
00:24:18,029 --> 00:24:16,330
drink he correct and the liquor store

515
00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:18,039
was across the street from where bud

516
00:24:23,380 --> 00:24:18,880
lives

517
00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:23,390
above the village and the way bud has

518
00:24:27,730 --> 00:24:25,310
told me the story he went in there one

519
00:24:29,350 --> 00:24:27,740
day and certainly like George and knew

520
00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:29,360
him well enough to exchange the time of

521
00:24:36,430 --> 00:24:31,940
day and all and George was in a very

522
00:24:39,670 --> 00:24:36,440
emotionally shutdown mood and but asked

523
00:24:41,260 --> 00:24:39,680
him what was wrong and after saying he'd

524
00:24:42,610 --> 00:24:41,270
rather not talk about it and he did

525
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:42,620
start to talk about it

526
00:24:47,470 --> 00:24:45,440
and described going home I believe the

527
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:47,480
night before or a few days you know not

528
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:50,990
long before he had closed up late he was

529
00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:54,530
on the road right up the Jersey coast

530
00:24:59,080 --> 00:24:57,230
and was about at the 86th Street

531
00:25:02,680 --> 00:24:59,090
parallel if you drew a line across from

532
00:25:05,650 --> 00:25:02,690
Manhattan Bergen yeah there abouts and

533
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:05,660
there is as you know a and it was a very

534
00:25:11,500 --> 00:25:08,090
modern apartment complex at the time it

535
00:25:14,110 --> 00:25:11,510
reminds me of the old capital recording

536
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:14,120
in Los Angeles because it's it's

537
00:25:20,110 --> 00:25:17,570
circular tower or towers and it's called

538
00:25:22,930 --> 00:25:20,120
the Stonehenge apartment complex just to

539
00:25:24,580 --> 00:25:22,940
add a little singer there and it was

540
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:24,590
like 2:00 in the morning and he said as

541
00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:26,090
he was driving I don't remember the

542
00:25:28,930 --> 00:25:27,950
order had happened in whether or not he

543
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:28,940
was starting to get some radio

544
00:25:32,290 --> 00:25:30,530
interference or caught something out of

545
00:25:34,270 --> 00:25:32,300
his rear mirror I think he was hitting

546
00:25:37,150 --> 00:25:34,280
the radio because it was Fritzing ow and

547
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:37,160
then he saw something coming up behind

548
00:25:41,860 --> 00:25:38,930
him assumed it was a car Allah

549
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:41,870
close encounters the thing went over the

550
00:25:46,810 --> 00:25:44,810
car the static got crazy and he wants to

551
00:25:49,270 --> 00:25:46,820
continue on and just veer right into a

552
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:49,280
field a hundred yards or so from the

553
00:25:55,060 --> 00:25:52,610
complex and come down and land and at

554
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:55,070
this point he starts to slow down to

555
00:26:00,760 --> 00:25:58,480
just about no miles an hour and watches

556
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:00,770
roads pretty deserted stew in the

557
00:26:05,830 --> 00:26:03,110
morning as this thing as it's coming

558
00:26:07,930 --> 00:26:05,840
down some kind of apparatus is come out

559
00:26:12,820 --> 00:26:07,940
of the bottom landing gear what have you

560
00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:12,830
it sits on the ground a gangplank comes

561
00:26:18,430 --> 00:26:14,480
down I don't know what else to call it

562
00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:18,440
and several beings with metallic suits I

563
00:26:22,780 --> 00:26:20,750
think that I recall I mean it's just

564
00:26:25,390 --> 00:26:22,790
sounds like it sounds

565
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:25,400
but they had so I'll cover up the stuff

566
00:26:34,450 --> 00:26:32,570
that you can't but they had soil

567
00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:34,460
collection material they job whatever

568
00:26:37,900 --> 00:26:35,510
want to call it start digging

569
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:37,910
ferociously and he watched this whole

570
00:26:44,650 --> 00:26:40,880
thing as they did this then got back on

571
00:26:50,020 --> 00:26:44,660
the thing rose the gear retracted and it

572
00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:50,030
took off and he went home George who I

573
00:26:55,150 --> 00:26:52,910
think was in his 70s at the time lived

574
00:26:58,150 --> 00:26:55,160
with his adult son who worked a

575
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:58,160
nightshift job by the time the his son

576
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:00,080
comes home he said he was in a real

577
00:27:05,260 --> 00:27:03,290
state under the covers extremely upset

578
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:05,270
extremely absurd well this this is all a

579
00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:07,250
matter of a UFO history and I've seen

580
00:27:10,660 --> 00:27:08,990
them interviewed over the years and

581
00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:10,670
story pretty much has stayed the same

582
00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:13,790
and they found possibly an additional

583
00:27:17,770 --> 00:27:16,340
witness or two because of course the

584
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:17,780
street is the Stonehenge building the

585
00:27:23,770 --> 00:27:20,570
front plain a glass was a broke by some

586
00:27:27,070 --> 00:27:23,780
object in rock or something tied in with

587
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:27,080
again oh yeah if so eight other cases

588
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:29,840
that stick in my mind that's the UFOs

589
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:33,050
UFO Alzheimer's that's bad and again

590
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:35,810
being a Jersey boy yeah but it was buds

591
00:27:40,390 --> 00:27:37,850
very first investigation and you know

592
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:40,400
what it was a terrific car yeah and that

593
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:42,110
picked up I think later reprinted in

594
00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:51,200
Cosmopolitan magazine bingo oh yeah well

595
00:27:55,540 --> 00:27:53,390
he published it the boys and I read the

596
00:27:57,340 --> 00:27:55,550
article perhaps the only UFO article

597
00:27:58,810 --> 00:27:57,350
ever published on the hill it was I

598
00:28:02,080 --> 00:27:58,820
think there must have been another one

599
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:02,090
somewhere along yeah yeah uh but the

600
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:03,710
thing that struck me was I know this

601
00:28:08,650 --> 00:28:06,650
guy's name mm-hmm and what it was was I

602
00:28:11,290 --> 00:28:08,660
was an artist and I had seen some of his

603
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:11,300
stuff on exhibit and I found him in the

604
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:12,890
phone book I called him I introduced

605
00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:14,690
myself told him I was teaching at visual

606
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:17,510
arts he invited me over we had coffee we

607
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:20,570
chatted and we started the friendship

608
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:22,730
which we have now almost 30 years later

609
00:28:30,850 --> 00:28:27,410
yeah and I'm very proud to say that we

610
00:28:32,650 --> 00:28:30,860
did our very first UFO talks together at

611
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:32,660
the time visual arts was a small

612
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:34,510
wonderfully freewheeling arts

613
00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:36,010
and they're always looking for

614
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:38,980
interesting lectures and I asked bug if

615
00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:41,290
he thought that this man mr. Oh Barsky

616
00:28:45,659 --> 00:28:42,700
would be interested in speaking in a

617
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:45,669
public forum and not only did he get

618
00:28:51,180 --> 00:28:48,610
George but he got another wonderful

619
00:28:56,130 --> 00:28:51,190
dinosaur of UFO studies a guy named dick

620
00:28:58,500 --> 00:28:56,140
rule the claw April yeah yeah yeah a

621
00:29:02,159 --> 00:28:58,510
now-defunct yeah Cora Lawrence and Jim

622
00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:02,169
Lawrence's based organization and they

623
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:07,270
and myself did a UFO presentation at the

624
00:29:14,970 --> 00:29:10,690
School of Visual Arts and a fantastic

625
00:29:17,789 --> 00:29:14,980
lineup yes and George was just as you'd

626
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:17,799
hope they would be cantankerous and

627
00:29:24,750 --> 00:29:22,330
tough absolutely unbending and he made a

628
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:24,760
big deal out of saying that it was

629
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:26,890
absolutely shattering to him is the most

630
00:29:31,710 --> 00:29:29,290
upsetting moment of his life was seeing

631
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:31,720
these things his son as I think you

632
00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:34,450
probably know after his dad tells him

633
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:36,820
about this he's come home and he says

634
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:39,520
it's still dark out but he says you wait

635
00:29:44,820 --> 00:29:42,340
here do not talk to anybody and he goes

636
00:29:47,580 --> 00:29:44,830
back to this field parks his car walks

637
00:29:50,130 --> 00:29:47,590
out into the field finds the impressions

638
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:50,140
of where this thing sat and finds these

639
00:29:58,110 --> 00:29:53,200
dig marks and home he goes and you know

640
00:30:00,840 --> 00:29:58,120
I believe you dad but I point out how

641
00:30:02,490 --> 00:30:00,850
did that lead to it cuz you're probably

642
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:02,500
best-known it like I say is the the

643
00:30:05,970 --> 00:30:03,850
author of the book come out through the

644
00:30:08,010 --> 00:30:05,980
book with Larry Warren how did you get

645
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:08,020
involved with Bentwaters and and tell

646
00:30:12,390 --> 00:30:09,340
it's just because we're already halfway

647
00:30:14,250 --> 00:30:12,400
through this what did you see in England

648
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:14,260
and what's happened with the Bentwaters

649
00:30:21,330 --> 00:30:19,570
and well again my start was as I have

650
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:21,340
said and I started to educate myself

651
00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:23,770
which for me meant buying books reading

652
00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:25,929
books starting to subscribe to

653
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:29,110
publications I really was not yet very

654
00:30:32,190 --> 00:30:30,970
interested in meeting anybody that did

655
00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:32,200
this work because I thought they had to

656
00:30:40,590 --> 00:30:34,990
be nuts I know I was saying I knew my

657
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:40,600
sister was but it was bud Colonel major

658
00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:44,210
von etske of course all the neh

659
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:47,630
antonio and Peeta's ola that was kind of

660
00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:50,330
my first yes in the field and after a

661
00:30:58,390 --> 00:30:52,540
while I started to speak at conferences

662
00:31:00,580 --> 00:30:58,400
it was in 1983 that the original

663
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:00,590
Rendlesham story broke in the newspapers

664
00:31:05,380 --> 00:31:03,440
in England it was October and of course

665
00:31:08,170 --> 00:31:05,390
you know UFO news clipping service and

666
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:08,180
things it was front page was carried by

667
00:31:15,580 --> 00:31:11,570
so many British papers and all of us had

668
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:15,590
a general awareness it was the next year

669
00:31:21,070 --> 00:31:18,650
84 when there were the UFO over flights

670
00:31:22,690 --> 00:31:21,080
over Westchester and you may remember

671
00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:22,700
there was a huge town meeting one of the

672
00:31:27,010 --> 00:31:24,950
high schools and Brewster there exactly

673
00:31:29,950 --> 00:31:27,020
I was there you were there Pete was

674
00:31:32,890 --> 00:31:29,960
there Antonio I remember Whitley and bud

675
00:31:34,930 --> 00:31:32,900
were there dr. Hynek was there was that

676
00:31:37,180 --> 00:31:34,940
one time I met dr. Hynek he showed up as

677
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:37,190
well yeah and at one point I took a

678
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:39,650
break went out onto the front of the

679
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:42,770
high school Larry was holding court on

680
00:31:47,530 --> 00:31:45,170
the front lawn that was his first public

681
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:47,540
appearance right yeah I've done an

682
00:31:58,300 --> 00:31:55,490
official talk listen to him I've waited

683
00:32:00,940 --> 00:31:58,310
oh and here's this guy who purports to

684
00:32:03,790 --> 00:32:00,950
be that witness who went forward and

685
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,800
there was only one at the time and I

686
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:05,840
remembers standing there and trying to

687
00:32:13,510 --> 00:32:08,050
make an assessment and my thought was

688
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:13,520
you know I'm not the I people can lie to

689
00:32:17,860 --> 00:32:15,170
me and I won't get it I'm not like a

690
00:32:21,460 --> 00:32:17,870
totally untrusting person but this guy

691
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:21,470
seems really sincere he doesn't seem to

692
00:32:25,270 --> 00:32:23,600
have any angle here except that just to

693
00:32:29,050 --> 00:32:25,280
talk a bit about what he remembered from

694
00:32:31,330 --> 00:32:29,060
the thing and you know authentic

695
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:31,340
military witnesses as opposed to I am

696
00:32:36,070 --> 00:32:33,590
risking my life to come forward and this

697
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:36,080
for him nobody's ever taken a shot at

698
00:32:41,980 --> 00:32:40,640
him yet but it just treat me and I think

699
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:41,990
I said you know good luck to you we

700
00:32:47,050 --> 00:32:44,450
shook hands and that was it for three

701
00:32:48,820 --> 00:32:47,060
years where we met and ultimately

702
00:32:53,290 --> 00:32:48,830
started to get to work

703
00:32:56,170 --> 00:32:53,300
was in 87 there was a 40th anniversary

704
00:32:57,670 --> 00:32:56,180
of the UFO phenomena conference at

705
00:33:00,430 --> 00:32:57,680
American University and

706
00:33:04,780 --> 00:33:00,440
Washington DC and Larry had been invited

707
00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:04,790
as a speaker it was MUFON sponsor Larry

708
00:33:10,420 --> 00:33:06,320
had been invited to speak about this

709
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:10,430
thing and I was invited to be a panelist

710
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:12,170
well there were still quite a few people

711
00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:14,210
at that time they thought that Larry was

712
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:15,500
making the whole thing up that he was

713
00:33:24,820 --> 00:33:22,690
it certainly wasn't there on the night

714
00:33:27,370 --> 00:33:24,830
of the incident if anything right and

715
00:33:29,170 --> 00:33:27,380
being the easygoing character he is

716
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:29,180
yeah just lives to get along well with

717
00:33:33,550 --> 00:33:31,910
people what he was not adverse to

718
00:33:34,330 --> 00:33:33,560
getting in people's faces if they looked

719
00:33:39,460 --> 00:33:34,340
at him cross-eyed

720
00:33:42,460 --> 00:33:39,470
and he was cut off not long into the

721
00:33:44,620 --> 00:33:42,470
talk they said it was because they were

722
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:44,630
not they unfortunately let let other

723
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:46,370
people run too long and add and take it

724
00:33:52,690 --> 00:33:48,890
off as somebody's talk but he got

725
00:33:54,190 --> 00:33:52,700
appropriately angry and left taking

726
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:54,200
quite a bit of the room with him and

727
00:33:57,430 --> 00:33:55,850
continued it informally out in the

728
00:33:58,990 --> 00:33:57,440
hallway I thought to myself

729
00:34:01,120 --> 00:33:59,000
son-of-a-bitch there's something about

730
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:01,130
this that makes me feel yeah he is

731
00:34:05,950 --> 00:34:03,650
telling the truth and that there are

732
00:34:09,070 --> 00:34:05,960
things that he's not talking about that

733
00:34:12,130 --> 00:34:09,080
I just I'm intrigued ok so just in the

734
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:12,140
end 50 50 words or less that's three

735
00:34:17,380 --> 00:34:14,810
nights in a row this unidentified object

736
00:34:21,070 --> 00:34:17,390
lands at this military a NATO military

737
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:21,080
base in in England the UF servicemen all

738
00:34:24,370 --> 00:34:22,610
see this from different angles they all

739
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:24,380
take different points of view on it some

740
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:27,050
claim that they saw humanoids some claim

741
00:34:30,340 --> 00:34:28,480
that they didn't it's a whole

742
00:34:32,650 --> 00:34:30,350
controversial subject there been

743
00:34:34,750 --> 00:34:32,660
numerous books written about it but

744
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:34,760
certainly a Larry's and yours is the

745
00:34:40,930 --> 00:34:38,930
definitive work on the subject okay so

746
00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:40,940
all right you went you went to England

747
00:34:43,930 --> 00:34:42,320
when you started researching this you

748
00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:43,940
went over to England you went to the

749
00:34:49,590 --> 00:34:46,100
spot where this happened yes what and

750
00:34:52,270 --> 00:34:49,600
and nobody expected you to come back and

751
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:52,280
you had a whole series of weird things

752
00:34:58,240 --> 00:34:56,510
that took place there nutshell what

753
00:35:00,580 --> 00:34:58,250
Larry and the other guys had experienced

754
00:35:03,370 --> 00:35:00,590
was over three consecutive nights

755
00:35:05,770 --> 00:35:03,380
between Christmas and New Year's 1980 is

756
00:35:09,010 --> 00:35:05,780
took place in Suffolk about 90 miles 80

757
00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:09,020
miles northeast of London a series of

758
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:11,340
events landings

759
00:35:16,100 --> 00:35:14,250
overflights beams of light fired down

760
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:16,110
into the nuclear weapons storage area

761
00:35:23,060 --> 00:35:19,770
with fog mysterious fog and on the third

762
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:23,070
night of events the appearance seemingly

763
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:25,650
of a fully articulated craft with three

764
00:35:32,270 --> 00:35:29,310
beings which Larry and several other men

765
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:32,280
have sworn to but not all the witnesses

766
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:35,280
know and as you said appropriately

767
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:36,720
people were seeing different things from

768
00:35:41,210 --> 00:35:39,060
different angles there was an element of

769
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:41,220
physiological shock for all concerned I

770
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:44,490
think it's fair to say we're dealing

771
00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:46,110
with events that happened over three

772
00:35:48,950 --> 00:35:47,790
nights so sometimes people are talking

773
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:48,960
about one would think they're hearing

774
00:35:53,630 --> 00:35:51,450
about another one we lay it out all as

775
00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:53,640
clear as we can and left at Eastgate but

776
00:35:56,570 --> 00:35:55,320
we go back in February of which I

777
00:35:59,060 --> 00:35:56,580
understand there's a new edition about

778
00:36:02,480 --> 00:35:59,070
thank you yes

779
00:36:04,940 --> 00:36:02,490
Cosmo books a New York publisher does

780
00:36:06,830 --> 00:36:04,950
have an updated expanded edition of left

781
00:36:07,460 --> 00:36:06,840
to be skate which is available on the

782
00:36:10,910 --> 00:36:07,470
Internet

783
00:36:16,060 --> 00:36:10,920
Larry Warren and Peter Robbins any

784
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:16,070
bookstore but we go back in February 88

785
00:36:21,740 --> 00:36:18,780
Larry has suggested after months of my

786
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:21,750
doing work on this at a distance at home

787
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:24,210
in New York that it would probably

788
00:36:29,390 --> 00:36:26,570
increase our credibility if we went back

789
00:36:31,370 --> 00:36:29,400
that I should be there and feel what it

790
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:31,380
feels like walk the walk etcetera I

791
00:36:34,970 --> 00:36:33,450
thought cool we will look better I'll

792
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:34,980
bring a camera we'll take some pictures

793
00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:36,810
we'll go home we'll finish the book

794
00:36:41,390 --> 00:36:39,660
we'll be rich and famous and you know

795
00:36:43,460 --> 00:36:41,400
George Clooney will play many and Brad

796
00:36:48,710 --> 00:36:43,470
Pitt tell me that bling-bling that you

797
00:36:52,550 --> 00:36:48,720
got from the Royal he's hitting me right

798
00:36:55,370 --> 00:36:52,560
out so the very first night on location

799
00:36:58,910 --> 00:36:55,380
we walk out to the base where he was

800
00:37:01,730 --> 00:36:58,920
stationed and walking back from the base

801
00:37:03,860 --> 00:37:01,740
very close to the base we have what I

802
00:37:08,420 --> 00:37:03,870
can only describe is a major multiple

803
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:08,430
UFO incident at the time my best tool

804
00:37:12,590 --> 00:37:10,320
for doing my work was a tape recorder at

805
00:37:14,330 --> 00:37:12,600
one in each pocket and we record

806
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:14,340
everything that we're seeing while we're

807
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:17,280
seeing it transcription is in the book

808
00:37:24,940 --> 00:37:21,710
it was unidentified phenomena in

809
00:37:27,820 --> 00:37:24,950
sky that were no much bigger than stars

810
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:27,830
but we're moving around at right angles

811
00:37:34,329 --> 00:37:28,970
and things you want to hold that camera

812
00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:34,339
from before okay so we saw small things

813
00:37:39,130 --> 00:37:36,140
no bigger than stars that were

814
00:37:41,829 --> 00:37:39,140
zigzagging we saw fully articulated disc

815
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:41,839
shaped objects of some size making no

816
00:37:47,550 --> 00:37:45,170
noise dropping into the Rendlesham

817
00:37:49,780 --> 00:37:47,560
forest and lighting up the forest him

818
00:37:51,490 --> 00:37:49,790
like a hundred klieg lights at a

819
00:37:53,470 --> 00:37:51,500
Hollywood premiere I mean just not

820
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:53,480
earthly and then we finally saw

821
00:37:56,650 --> 00:37:54,890
something appear in a field

822
00:37:59,710 --> 00:37:56,660
not far from us and it wasn't there

823
00:38:03,820 --> 00:37:59,720
before this sounds wacky it freaked me

824
00:38:05,650 --> 00:38:03,830
but I mean why would it just it it's

825
00:38:09,010 --> 00:38:05,660
like you're drawing it like a magnet

826
00:38:11,410 --> 00:38:09,020
well all I can say is well now we do

827
00:38:14,829 --> 00:38:11,420
know that there's something about Larry

828
00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:14,839
that does draw this stuff like a magnet

829
00:38:18,099 --> 00:38:16,460
we know there are people like that who

830
00:38:20,620 --> 00:38:18,109
have higher incidences of sightings and

831
00:38:23,859 --> 00:38:20,630
experiences than others he is one of

832
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:23,869
those folks it is an area of England

833
00:38:28,660 --> 00:38:25,910
with a high incidence of sightings and

834
00:38:30,430 --> 00:38:28,670
have other people had sightings and

835
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:30,440
experiences since then since and in that

836
00:38:37,329 --> 00:38:33,530
same area yes absolutely yeah but for me

837
00:38:40,839 --> 00:38:37,339
it was doubly upsetting because I I was

838
00:38:43,450 --> 00:38:40,849
really prising being a chronicler yes I

839
00:38:46,450 --> 00:38:43,460
had no intention or desire to be a story

840
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:46,460
yeah yeah and I was all of a sudden and

841
00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:48,410
overnight and we went on to take years

842
00:38:53,230 --> 00:38:51,500
to do the properly between us I think we

843
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:53,240
went back to England something like 15

844
00:38:59,800 --> 00:38:56,690
times and pleased with the result and

845
00:39:01,000 --> 00:38:59,810
glad we've got it back in print and like

846
00:39:03,579 --> 00:39:01,010
you're right that is I guess what I'm

847
00:39:04,570 --> 00:39:03,589
best known for in this field but you've

848
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:04,580
done it you've had a lot of other

849
00:39:09,099 --> 00:39:06,170
accomplishments and I understand this

850
00:39:12,730 --> 00:39:09,109
year you are returning to the scene of

851
00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:12,740
the UFO of the sighting or photograph in

852
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:14,780
McMinnville Oregon

853
00:39:18,820 --> 00:39:16,730
yes now you got to fill us in a little

854
00:39:22,780 --> 00:39:18,830
bit on that I yeah and unless you're a

855
00:39:25,510 --> 00:39:22,790
real crusty old ufologist and a lot of

856
00:39:28,180 --> 00:39:25,520
today's modern breed probably do not are

857
00:39:29,140 --> 00:39:28,190
not that familiar with the of the case

858
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:29,150
that we're talking about well they

859
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:30,410
probably seen the photos I would say

860
00:39:34,299 --> 00:39:32,720
because they've been reprinted in every

861
00:39:37,989 --> 00:39:34,309
UFO

862
00:39:40,209 --> 00:39:37,999
doubtful eek River yeah essentially

863
00:39:45,449 --> 00:39:40,219
we're talking about a UFO incident that

864
00:39:48,339 --> 00:39:45,459
happened in 1950 in northern Oregon

865
00:39:50,949 --> 00:39:48,349
about an hour outside of Portland near a

866
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:50,959
town called McMinnville and it involved

867
00:39:57,099 --> 00:39:54,410
a farmer named Trent a very respected

868
00:40:00,579 --> 00:39:57,109
member of this community who took two

869
00:40:03,309 --> 00:40:00,589
black-and-white photos of a very

870
00:40:06,549 --> 00:40:03,319
articulated disc shaped thing closer his

871
00:40:11,620 --> 00:40:06,559
house closer and without any formal

872
00:40:12,819 --> 00:40:11,630
training or you know involvement in the

873
00:40:15,219 --> 00:40:12,829
field to put it mildly

874
00:40:17,549 --> 00:40:15,229
he captured figure-ground relationship

875
00:40:20,259 --> 00:40:17,559
with the roof of his house some trees

876
00:40:24,130 --> 00:40:20,269
because this is way pre-digital and

877
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:24,140
because they know Ronnie yeah Ronnie

878
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:26,209
Hawkeye something like that yes very box

879
00:40:33,189 --> 00:40:28,640
camera dirt box cabin Kodak camera yeah

880
00:40:35,109 --> 00:40:33,199
he took two pictures that he had no ax

881
00:40:36,609 --> 00:40:35,119
to grind on put him out there in the

882
00:40:37,390 --> 00:40:36,619
public realm where they were taken out

883
00:40:38,819 --> 00:40:37,400
there well they weren't they were

884
00:40:43,479 --> 00:40:38,829
putting it on the front page of the

885
00:40:47,799 --> 00:40:43,489
McMinnville register register maybe and

886
00:40:49,209 --> 00:40:47,809
from that point on well I got them free

887
00:40:51,130 --> 00:40:49,219
in the mail I remember if you wrote to

888
00:40:52,870 --> 00:40:51,140
them when I was about 14 I wrote to the

889
00:40:55,089 --> 00:40:52,880
editor of the newspaper and they would

890
00:40:57,309 --> 00:40:55,099
send it to you for free that was my

891
00:41:04,959 --> 00:40:57,319
first big poster outside of Clarabelle

892
00:41:06,789 --> 00:41:04,969
the clown well in McMinnville this story

893
00:41:10,660 --> 00:41:06,799
was taken very seriously because the

894
00:41:13,870 --> 00:41:10,670
farm family itself was the trench never

895
00:41:15,759 --> 00:41:13,880
asked for nor received a penny the

896
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:15,769
photograph was never got a guy written

897
00:41:18,549 --> 00:41:16,640
yeah

898
00:41:20,439 --> 00:41:18,559
which it's if it was a photo of Britney

899
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:20,449
Spears and they had collected royalties

900
00:41:24,789 --> 00:41:22,130
on it they would be millionaires right

901
00:41:28,449 --> 00:41:24,799
now and there's some unbelievable stuff

902
00:41:30,429 --> 00:41:28,459
there too yeah about eight years ago the

903
00:41:33,279 --> 00:41:30,439
folks in McMinnville decided that this

904
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:33,289
was a serious event and one we're taking

905
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:36,650
pride in and began an annual UFO

906
00:41:41,410 --> 00:41:38,089
conference that they call the

907
00:41:44,210 --> 00:41:41,420
McMinnville you at home fest and I spoke

908
00:41:49,430 --> 00:41:44,220
at it in 2004 we'll be back there

909
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:49,440
this may topic will be the strange death

910
00:41:55,970 --> 00:41:51,890
of our first Secretary of Defense James

911
00:41:57,950 --> 00:41:55,980
Forrestal who I contend did not take his

912
00:42:01,730 --> 00:41:57,960
own life but that he was murdered and

913
00:42:05,180 --> 00:42:01,740
that was he was involved in mj-12 well

914
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:05,190
if we take mj-12 as fat yeah he was a

915
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:08,910
member named member for sure and it's

916
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:10,770
always struck me about mj-12 that were

917
00:42:17,210 --> 00:42:13,170
if it were to prove to be a fabrication

918
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:17,220
mmm number one it seems to be generated

919
00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:18,930
from fairly high up there's a lot of

920
00:42:24,710 --> 00:42:22,140
knowledge included in it that took a lot

921
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:24,720
of work yeah but more that these twelve

922
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:28,290
individuals were very appropriate to the

923
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:29,910
twelve people you'd want to pull into a

924
00:42:34,099 --> 00:42:31,290
circle around the President of the

925
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:34,109
United States at the time so I'll be

926
00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:37,440
presenting a paper on that also be doing

927
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:41,119
a talk on early UFO literature the old

928
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:43,920
wonderful pulp magazines with the

929
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:46,890
fabulous illustrations on the cover and

930
00:42:54,589 --> 00:42:52,050
we will also be doing a discussion on

931
00:42:56,060 --> 00:42:54,599
sixty years into the UFO phenomena what

932
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:56,070
have we learned where do we stand in

933
00:43:01,910 --> 00:42:58,650
terms of the research Dave Jacobs will

934
00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:01,920
also be speaking behind conferences I'll

935
00:43:08,359 --> 00:43:05,310
be speaking in Roswell in July at the

936
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:08,369
60th anniversary conference how do you

937
00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:10,410
I'm on a scale of one to ten how do you

938
00:43:14,390 --> 00:43:12,540
rate Roswell never been there and I'm

939
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:14,400
not speaking in the town now I don't

940
00:43:25,130 --> 00:43:15,930
know yet don't try to you don't get out

941
00:43:27,410 --> 00:43:25,140
of this one okay I count that count the

942
00:43:30,170 --> 00:43:27,420
number of seconds if I say the wrong

943
00:43:31,730 --> 00:43:30,180
thing that's right you yeah okay lose my

944
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:31,740
UFO credential uh-huh

945
00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:33,810
I think something happened I think

946
00:43:38,540 --> 00:43:35,550
something definitely crashed the first

947
00:43:41,260 --> 00:43:38,550
week in July 1947 and not the stock

948
00:43:47,570 --> 00:43:41,270
market no no that machine years earlier

949
00:43:51,109 --> 00:43:47,580
I loved the romance and the legend and

950
00:43:53,270 --> 00:43:51,119
the mythology of Roswell I have you know

951
00:43:55,170 --> 00:43:53,280
read most of the good books on it the

952
00:43:57,839 --> 00:43:55,180
bad books I

953
00:44:00,359 --> 00:43:57,849
I don't consider it out of question that

954
00:44:03,809 --> 00:44:00,369
it could have been something man-made

955
00:44:07,020 --> 00:44:03,819
and that the cover-up was not around

956
00:44:09,150 --> 00:44:07,030
little alien forms but I'm also

957
00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:09,160
predisposed to think that this was a

958
00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:12,460
phenomenal historical event or should I

959
00:44:19,109 --> 00:44:16,030
get Clippers for the hedge only if you

960
00:44:21,690 --> 00:44:19,119
feel it's the right move I am looking

961
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:21,700
forward to visiting Roscoe and what is

962
00:44:29,010 --> 00:44:24,640
your topic there it's an assigned topic

963
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:29,020
on allegations of unnatural deaths of

964
00:44:34,819 --> 00:44:32,170
certain researchers I'm afraid I may be

965
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:34,829
proving some of them no matter how grand

966
00:44:40,049 --> 00:44:38,319
that they were no shenanigans and I

967
00:44:43,079 --> 00:44:40,059
apologize in advance to anybody that

968
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:43,089
will be upset by that I'm working on a

969
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:45,010
couple of papers right now haven't

970
00:44:49,319 --> 00:44:46,720
forbid that a ufologist should die of

971
00:44:51,020 --> 00:44:49,329
natural causes that would prove that you

972
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:51,030
knew nothing about the subject

973
00:44:56,579 --> 00:44:53,890
it also robs us of a certain amount of

974
00:44:59,700 --> 00:44:56,589
lively speculation you go yeah and right

975
00:45:01,980 --> 00:44:59,710
now we need all the attention we can get

976
00:45:04,049 --> 00:45:01,990
on this I'm working on a paper right now

977
00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:04,059
we talked about over dinner yeah on the

978
00:45:09,390 --> 00:45:06,760
history of UFOs and aliens in

979
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:09,400
advertising and I hope we'll see that

980
00:45:16,140 --> 00:45:12,670
published later this year also working

981
00:45:17,940 --> 00:45:16,150
on papers for conferences I hope I'll

982
00:45:19,470 --> 00:45:17,950
get in one - we've got something coming

983
00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:19,480
up in December I understand on

984
00:45:25,859 --> 00:45:23,710
abductions in the San Diego area and I

985
00:45:27,390 --> 00:45:25,869
am hoping I'll be invited back to the

986
00:45:29,490 --> 00:45:27,400
crash retrieval conference right now

987
00:45:32,039 --> 00:45:29,500
let's talk about crash retrievals I

988
00:45:35,370 --> 00:45:32,049
understand if you have a cop secret

989
00:45:38,490 --> 00:45:35,380
assignment well now you've put me on a

990
00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:38,500
terrible spot time terrible excuse me

991
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:45,479
yes some one that I'm delighted to have

992
00:45:48,509 --> 00:45:47,170
to be a little bit mysterious on here

993
00:45:51,809 --> 00:45:48,519
although I hope you'll see the benefit

994
00:45:54,900 --> 00:45:51,819
down the line a colleague of mine whose

995
00:45:57,930 --> 00:45:54,910
name is not unknown in the field has

996
00:46:01,739 --> 00:45:57,940
hired me to do some investigative

997
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:01,749
research with him next week we will

998
00:46:09,019 --> 00:46:03,970
spend some time in the national military

999
00:46:11,849 --> 00:46:09,029
archives in st. Louis then drive on to

1000
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:11,859
Independence Missouri and pay a visit to

1001
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:15,130
the Truman library and then head down to

1002
00:46:23,279 --> 00:46:17,920
a certain unnamed state in the Union on

1003
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,289
the eastern could we have a zip code yes

1004
00:46:30,059 --> 00:46:25,839
and why not just the two letters they

1005
00:46:31,799 --> 00:46:30,069
use to abbreviate that where we'll spend

1006
00:46:36,109 --> 00:46:31,809
a couple of days looking into the

1007
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:36,119
allegation that something not natural

1008
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:39,609
crashed in a rural part of this state in

1009
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:42,970
the early 1950s and that doubly

1010
00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:45,910
intrigued me even though I like this

1011
00:46:51,180 --> 00:46:48,569
kind of basic research in that it's pre

1012
00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:51,190
1957 and as we know that's the year

1013
00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:53,440
Sputnik went up so at least

1014
00:46:57,870 --> 00:46:55,119
hypothetically or intellectually you

1015
00:47:00,870 --> 00:46:57,880
have to grant credence to something that

1016
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:00,880
came down after 57 is maybe something

1017
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:05,049
that we human being sent up if we are

1018
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:06,729
able to find anything the intellectual

1019
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:08,529
property will go to my friend and at

1020
00:47:11,309 --> 00:47:09,910
that point I hope I'll be free to talk

1021
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:11,319
about what this is or you can publish

1022
00:47:16,319 --> 00:47:13,930
around it if not I will have a

1023
00:47:19,380 --> 00:47:16,329
interesting week next week no matter

1024
00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:19,390
what well you know ok so we're we're

1025
00:47:25,410 --> 00:47:21,430
we're we're sitting on the fence here

1026
00:47:27,749 --> 00:47:25,420
now ok and but you know crash recreate

1027
00:47:29,009 --> 00:47:27,759
crash retrievals the UFOs you know I

1028
00:47:31,620 --> 00:47:29,019
mean this is something I guess that

1029
00:47:35,579 --> 00:47:31,630
fascinates everybody because it is the

1030
00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:35,589
ultimate the proof of Stanton Friedman's

1031
00:47:40,469 --> 00:47:37,150
idea that we have visitors from outer

1032
00:47:42,259 --> 00:47:40,479
space but you know be honest with you

1033
00:47:44,969 --> 00:47:42,269
now and I've done a book you know the

1034
00:47:48,359 --> 00:47:44,979
mj-12 in the riddle of go ahead go ahead

1035
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:48,369
a riddle of a hacker 18 and they're

1036
00:47:55,410 --> 00:47:52,450
probably 50 or 60 pretty you striking

1037
00:47:58,380 --> 00:47:55,420
startling UFO crash cases in the

1038
00:48:00,059 --> 00:47:58,390
and Leonard Stringfield of course who

1039
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:00,069
since passed off for a few years now but

1040
00:48:03,930 --> 00:48:02,710
he probably was the head honchos far as

1041
00:48:06,029 --> 00:48:03,940
collecting all this data I don't know

1042
00:48:08,130 --> 00:48:06,039
how many hundreds of crash saucers he

1043
00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:08,140
knew about how could there possibly be

1044
00:48:12,930 --> 00:48:10,569
so many crash saucers and this be

1045
00:48:15,900 --> 00:48:12,940
covered up so well well I think and why

1046
00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:15,910
would they be so in a saucers crash with

1047
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:17,529
the frequency with the frequency that

1048
00:48:21,779 --> 00:48:19,210
they supposedly do maybe we don't want

1049
00:48:25,289 --> 00:48:21,789
to know about their technology they're

1050
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:25,299
more maybe they're more UFO questions so

1051
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:27,220
there are airplane crashes I think I

1052
00:48:30,509 --> 00:48:28,690
think this makes an important question

1053
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:30,519
which has no matter how romantic the

1054
00:48:36,539 --> 00:48:34,450
notion that probably most if not the

1055
00:48:37,799 --> 00:48:36,549
great majority of these allegations and

1056
00:48:40,620 --> 00:48:37,809
some of them are not much more than

1057
00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:40,630
myths that they are explainable at

1058
00:48:47,789 --> 00:48:43,750
conventional terms also in the related

1059
00:48:50,220 --> 00:48:47,799
idea of sort of the corsa theory of

1060
00:48:53,039 --> 00:48:50,230
everything in terms of this whole new

1061
00:48:55,170 --> 00:48:53,049
modern age of technology having its

1062
00:48:58,309 --> 00:48:55,180
Genesis and back engineering from

1063
00:49:01,920 --> 00:48:58,319
Roswell and other types of incidents

1064
00:49:06,779 --> 00:49:01,930
it's a nice idea I mean all of our

1065
00:49:08,009 --> 00:49:06,789
cellular technology the internet so many

1066
00:49:11,339 --> 00:49:08,019
of the things that are now at the level

1067
00:49:13,410 --> 00:49:11,349
of toys or hot consumer goods that we

1068
00:49:15,630 --> 00:49:13,420
can only imagine where the classified

1069
00:49:20,190 --> 00:49:15,640
level is I don't know about you Tim but

1070
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:20,200
as much as I appreciate that in the same

1071
00:49:28,529 --> 00:49:24,609
way in we went from pre-industrial

1072
00:49:31,319 --> 00:49:28,539
Europe and America to the Industrial

1073
00:49:33,630 --> 00:49:31,329
Revolution which by the 1830s 1840s was

1074
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:33,640
taking off full blast and moving the

1075
00:49:37,470 --> 00:49:36,130
population of the manufacturing world in

1076
00:49:39,749 --> 00:49:37,480
a different direction at a different

1077
00:49:42,299 --> 00:49:39,759
rate and then we have this amazing

1078
00:49:44,039 --> 00:49:42,309
little period of time where we get all

1079
00:49:45,599 --> 00:49:44,049
these technological breakthroughs and

1080
00:49:48,180 --> 00:49:45,609
things we couldn't have even conceived a

1081
00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:48,190
few years before are now part of the

1082
00:49:54,660 --> 00:49:50,710
everyday electronic and

1083
00:49:56,310 --> 00:49:54,670
world environment some people and again

1084
00:50:00,060 --> 00:49:56,320
it's part of the basic course of theory

1085
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:00,070
that fiber optics and all of this stuff

1086
00:50:07,620 --> 00:50:04,330
the Genesis is there I genuinely feel we

1087
00:50:11,609 --> 00:50:07,630
human beings are amazing creatures I

1088
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:11,619
mean at our worst were terrible at our

1089
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:14,010
best were inventive beyond belief and

1090
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:17,410
just extraordinarily resilient and let's

1091
00:50:21,780 --> 00:50:19,330
say there was never any such thing as a

1092
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:21,790
UFO never an allegation of an alien

1093
00:50:28,530 --> 00:50:24,400
never a credible report of a flying

1094
00:50:31,290 --> 00:50:28,540
saucer or a crash is it possible that we

1095
00:50:35,220 --> 00:50:31,300
human beings somehow could have made

1096
00:50:38,730 --> 00:50:35,230
that jump from one electrical synapse to

1097
00:50:41,730 --> 00:50:38,740
another and created all the stuff that

1098
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:41,740
we have now without benefit of crashed

1099
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:44,650
alien technology I think yes although

1100
00:50:48,570 --> 00:50:46,210
when I look at the size of some of the

1101
00:50:50,099 --> 00:50:48,580
cellphones and what they do I've got to

1102
00:50:54,990 --> 00:50:50,109
make nervous jokes about crashed alien

1103
00:50:57,329 --> 00:50:55,000
technology so again I don't think a lot

1104
00:50:59,460 --> 00:50:57,339
of crashes if we had the information to

1105
00:51:02,280 --> 00:50:59,470
really research well let's go through a

1106
00:51:04,620 --> 00:51:02,290
handful of them Kecksburg real that one

1107
00:51:08,849 --> 00:51:04,630
I think something is quite extraordinary

1108
00:51:10,589 --> 00:51:08,859
about it and I'm sort of I've come to

1109
00:51:12,750 --> 00:51:10,599
that one later in life

1110
00:51:14,609 --> 00:51:12,760
sci-fi channel commissioned a pretty

1111
00:51:18,329 --> 00:51:14,619
good documentary a few years ago on it

1112
00:51:20,339 --> 00:51:18,339
and went back and did the whole thing it

1113
00:51:22,380 --> 00:51:20,349
could have been something of ours then

1114
00:51:25,770 --> 00:51:22,390
come down and that could have been what

1115
00:51:28,530 --> 00:51:25,780
the cover-up was about but I'm open on

1116
00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:28,540
that one I really am I think that that

1117
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:30,700
one maybe one of these special ones on

1118
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:33,910
Aztec I think that's nonsense I've never

1119
00:51:39,420 --> 00:51:36,270
seen anything credible about it

1120
00:51:42,570 --> 00:51:39,430
Jim Steadman wrote his huge monster book

1121
00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:42,580
but it it's limited as a research tool

1122
00:51:47,820 --> 00:51:44,800
there's no index there's little

1123
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:47,830
corroboration although it's a giant book

1124
00:51:51,030 --> 00:51:49,510
and fascinating and the kind of stuff

1125
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:51,040
that fuels your imagination

1126
00:51:56,570 --> 00:51:53,200
I'm just really pragmatic I mean maybe

1127
00:51:59,730 --> 00:51:56,580
part of it is that besides bud and

1128
00:52:01,610 --> 00:51:59,740
Coleman vodka bet ski my main teacher

1129
00:52:03,170 --> 00:52:01,620
was a New York City police

1130
00:52:06,610 --> 00:52:03,180
and I was taught to look into this stuff

1131
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:06,620
like a cop Fort Dix I like that one and

1132
00:52:12,950 --> 00:52:11,490
again if it happened in New Jersey dick

1133
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:12,960
Cole wrote about it so that's another

1134
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:18,960
three points well I guess yeah that it

1135
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,090
has a military context that they're

1136
00:52:25,270 --> 00:52:23,280
witnesses who came forward who had

1137
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:25,280
nothing to gain and an awful lot of

1138
00:52:30,350 --> 00:52:28,170
credibility to lose or fun to be poked

1139
00:52:31,730 --> 00:52:30,360
at them if people are willing to put

1140
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:31,740
themselves online about some of these

1141
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:34,500
things and for me that is worthy of

1142
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:36,510
respect as much as a machine part it's

1143
00:52:40,730 --> 00:52:38,370
just another aspect of the evidence that

1144
00:52:46,850 --> 00:52:40,740
you look into and making consideration

1145
00:52:50,780 --> 00:52:46,860
about UFO contacts are they legit well

1146
00:52:53,690 --> 00:52:50,790
in the spirit of the ones that populate

1147
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:53,700
the Golden Age of UFO studies the

1148
00:52:59,900 --> 00:52:55,970
contacts are contactees in this case

1149
00:53:03,760 --> 00:52:59,910
seemed to embody sort of an innocent pre

1150
00:53:07,940 --> 00:53:03,770
hippie kind of love and beloved spirit

1151
00:53:10,940 --> 00:53:07,950
once again the best of them were from

1152
00:53:13,940 --> 00:53:10,950
seemingly sincere if people whose rumble

1153
00:53:16,580 --> 00:53:13,950
may humble simple more trouble and what

1154
00:53:19,700 --> 00:53:16,590
the proofs usually came down to was take

1155
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:19,710
my word for it I'm an honest person or I

1156
00:53:24,530 --> 00:53:21,660
swear to you this blurry thing that you

1157
00:53:29,780 --> 00:53:24,540
see here really is the energy field

1158
00:53:32,740 --> 00:53:29,790
around a g2 x19 type spacecraft that is

1159
00:53:37,130 --> 00:53:32,750
standard to the Alpha Centauri fleet

1160
00:53:38,450 --> 00:53:37,140
when people say to me UFOs are real and

1161
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:38,460
I know the occupants are from other

1162
00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:39,810
planets yeah

1163
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:41,670
I'm sure you've had the same experience

1164
00:53:47,810 --> 00:53:44,160
you only have several responses one is

1165
00:53:51,350 --> 00:53:47,820
how do you know and two that they can

1166
00:53:52,310 --> 00:53:51,360
only say they told me which has some

1167
00:53:57,620 --> 00:53:52,320
built-in problems

1168
00:54:00,320 --> 00:53:57,630
I just know or gut feeling that feeling

1169
00:54:03,140 --> 00:54:00,330
yeah this person whose book I read says

1170
00:54:05,540 --> 00:54:03,150
that they're from this place or I

1171
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:05,550
channeled it or it was child for me or

1172
00:54:11,780 --> 00:54:09,090
or I'm from Missouri on this stuff show

1173
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:11,790
me something something anything you can

1174
00:54:14,510 --> 00:54:12,210
begin

1175
00:54:16,490 --> 00:54:14,520
to go forward well if I know that if

1176
00:54:21,020 --> 00:54:16,500
UFOs are not from outer space where they

1177
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:21,030
from when I started I that was the only

1178
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:23,730
place they could be from in my mind now

1179
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:28,410
I think of those UFOs that may prove to

1180
00:54:34,070 --> 00:54:31,890
be non-standard they could be from

1181
00:54:35,410 --> 00:54:34,080
another planet they could be from

1182
00:54:37,670 --> 00:54:35,420
another dimension

1183
00:54:39,620 --> 00:54:37,680
one step away from us right here in this

1184
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:39,630
room for example they could be from

1185
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:44,280
another time which means many of us or

1186
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:46,770
they could be yet something else that I

1187
00:54:52,940 --> 00:54:49,920
can't even conceive of yeah

1188
00:54:54,620 --> 00:54:52,950
are they parking themselves in the

1189
00:54:57,050 --> 00:54:54,630
caverns under the earth are they all on

1190
00:54:59,680 --> 00:54:57,060
the north side of the Moon right our

1191
00:55:02,510 --> 00:54:59,690
favorite theory are they playing on Mars

1192
00:55:07,070 --> 00:55:02,520
but I think the whole astral and during

1193
00:55:10,460 --> 00:55:07,080
Coney Island and astral at da silly me

1194
00:55:13,130 --> 00:55:10,470
what a perfect cover to those little cup

1195
00:55:15,339 --> 00:55:13,140
of saucers know the whole hybrid

1196
00:55:18,770 --> 00:55:15,349
phenomena which I take very seriously

1197
00:55:21,050 --> 00:55:18,780
but it makes you wonder where all these

1198
00:55:23,210 --> 00:55:21,060
beings are what they're waiting for what

1199
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:23,220
they're supposed to be doing or what

1200
00:55:28,579 --> 00:55:26,730
they are doing right now I do feel that

1201
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:28,589
they are real that they are out there

1202
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:30,810
that they are busy with something and I

1203
00:55:34,820 --> 00:55:32,910
wonder what did they pick you at Helen

1204
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:34,830
for a reason did they pick you or was it

1205
00:55:39,620 --> 00:55:35,310
random

1206
00:55:41,270 --> 00:55:39,630
I don't know even to this day I can only

1207
00:55:44,329 --> 00:55:41,280
ask better questions some of these

1208
00:55:47,859 --> 00:55:44,339
things I can't answer they picked Helen

1209
00:55:51,829 --> 00:55:47,869
and I was stuck with being the brother

1210
00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:51,839
we we the research community I mean it's

1211
00:55:57,140 --> 00:55:55,170
fair to say that more often than not if

1212
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,150
you study a real case history of

1213
00:56:02,210 --> 00:55:59,280
somebody who turns out to have all the

1214
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:02,220
earmarks of being a real abductee it's

1215
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:03,930
happened to them a number of times and

1216
00:56:10,579 --> 00:56:05,700
it probably has happened to one of their

1217
00:56:13,730 --> 00:56:10,589
parents that they seem they seem to be

1218
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:13,740
interested in following certain familial

1219
00:56:18,380 --> 00:56:16,200
bloodlines and we're stuck with that

1220
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:18,390
reality in the old days when people were

1221
00:56:24,380 --> 00:56:21,810
first looking into abductions as it

1222
00:56:24,780 --> 00:56:24,390
became ever so borderline acceptable to

1223
00:56:27,870 --> 00:56:24,790
even

1224
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:27,880
sitter that there was some thing in UFOs

1225
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:30,160
and that they just weren't machines I

1226
00:56:37,860 --> 00:56:34,690
think the attitude before that was there

1227
00:56:40,020 --> 00:56:37,870
I David Jacobs said it very funny one

1228
00:56:41,700 --> 00:56:40,030
time that you know here's a UFO going

1229
00:56:44,610 --> 00:56:41,710
over an area and there's a human being

1230
00:56:46,110 --> 00:56:44,620
and one guy in the opposite to the other

1231
00:56:48,660 --> 00:56:46,120
one there's one

1232
00:56:50,730 --> 00:56:48,670
get'em and we use the euphemism

1233
00:56:52,740 --> 00:56:50,740
experiment we're picking them up to

1234
00:56:54,930 --> 00:56:52,750
experiment on them I don't think there's

1235
00:56:58,170 --> 00:56:54,940
any experiment going on I think there is

1236
00:57:00,480 --> 00:56:58,180
a program going but you think maybe they

1237
00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:00,490
have been here since time began time

1238
00:57:07,650 --> 00:57:02,880
immemorial yes coming and going without

1239
00:57:10,290 --> 00:57:07,660
impunity uh on their own for whatever

1240
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:10,300
purposes they're here for and to this

1241
00:57:13,980 --> 00:57:12,130
day we can only still guess about why

1242
00:57:18,030 --> 00:57:13,990
they are here and where does this lead

1243
00:57:19,860 --> 00:57:18,040
Peter um to wondering what movies are on

1244
00:57:20,670 --> 00:57:19,870
TV tonight whether you're gonna have a

1245
00:57:26,810 --> 00:57:20,680
date tomorrow night

1246
00:57:30,810 --> 00:57:29,370
yeah I think all we can do is think

1247
00:57:32,580 --> 00:57:30,820
about how it affects human going down

1248
00:57:34,830 --> 00:57:32,590
UFOs get the UFO researchers get

1249
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:34,840
automatic retirement benefit Oh big time

1250
00:57:37,770 --> 00:57:36,370
well you know I was thinking in your

1251
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:37,780
life I was thinking about this the other

1252
00:57:42,090 --> 00:57:39,370
night you know how they have a special

1253
00:57:47,550 --> 00:57:42,100
actors home well why not a special home

1254
00:57:50,580 --> 00:57:47,560
for a UFO retirees thank you Peter

1255
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:50,590
really you bet you bet

1256
00:57:57,450 --> 00:57:55,330
oh cool oh yeah I think we got one and

1257
00:57:59,670 --> 00:57:57,460
as the hundreds of thousands of people

1258
00:58:01,770 --> 00:57:59,680
contact them about how much they value